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Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 8th, 2004, 01:36am


OK we can start now, I have arrived !

Rivera - out; SOLDANO- IN !

guys I have a thousand questions but I seem to be beating a dead horse on the other boards, so I've narrowed it down to this,

Rivera - out. I don't think I'll have enough potential gain.
I don't care about super heavy newer metal styles, but I do care that I want to have more gain than I'll ever need, rather than needing everything I've got if I have a Rivera (according to what I've read, available gain is an issue aside from the Knuckehead)

Soldano - IN
so, questions:

1)HR-50 looks like the one for me. But what about the age of manufacture on the HR-50, are all HR-50's the same ? I see 2 on EBAY right now. Is there a way to know the age? I don't care as much about condition
as I do Design. For example did the late 1990's HR-50's, if they existed then, have any difference with the new 2003,2004 models?
(excluding the HR50+, don't need that unless it falls in my lap)

2) I see various SLO's on EBAY too. They're 100 W, too much for me, unless I can get good amp-only sweet
gain at reasonable stage volumes.
I also see on EBAY one thats a 60W SLO, is that right? If so is it really old, and are the innerds designed similar to new 100 Watters?

3) Avenger- new expensive. Probably out of the question. Unless it is so incredibly superior to an HR-50 or SLO-100.

hope you can help me get this straight. The biggest issue is age and the differences between design of new and old, of the same model.

thanks
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 8th, 2004, 04:18am

Dude, I'd choose the Avenger. I picked mine up used in MINT condition for $1200. Not as expensive as a used SLO but a bit more than a used HR.

It's a very versatile amp for being only one channel. I can pull everything out of it from blues to AC/DC to ball kicking Metal!!!
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:55am

Well... regarding the HR50, they're all the same as far as I know. The only difference is the XL mod, which is a bass boost or something? I'm not sure. Anyways, the XL mod became a standard for the HR series around '98 or so. If you buy a newer model, it will have the mod. If you buy an older model, you have to check behind the amp (it will say 'Hot Rod 50 XL' if it does have the mod).
If you can find the HR50+ for a good price (say... around $1000), I think it's worth the extra money.
I didn't really had a choice when buying mine (which is the single channel), but if you live in US you can see them on Ebay all the time. I like to think that single channel amps sound better, though. grin
I don't even know if mine has the mod. The serial number was erased (huh)...

About the SLO, there was a lower wattage version, I think. If I remember correctly, it's not the same as the SLO100 and it was made in japan. It should be avoided, or so 'they' say...
I think you can't go wrong with the SLO, but if you're buying a HR on Ebay, you can pretty much get your money back if you decide to sell it for a SLO.

The Avenger... can't say it sounds bad for two reasons:
1. It's a Soldano. wink
2. TU BE would post some clips and make me look like an idiot. LOL
But it doesn't have an effects loop, and it's a 100 watter.

BTW, Rivera are cool amps too. I was considering a Hundred Duo Twelve before I got my Hot Rod... smiley

Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 8th, 2004, 12:57pm

Here's how Soldano describes the XL mod...

Quote:
The XL voicing adds an all-new sound to an already incredible Soldano amplifier. For starters, we added a bass boost to the circuit that provides a wicked low-end punch. If you want huge bottom end rumbling, or if you simply crave tons of low E-string chug, this is the amp for you. What's more, we've revoiced the clean channel giving it a glassy top end and tight lows to produce a clear, ringing tone reminiscent of many of the classic American amps. Additional bottom and a sweetly refined top end are combined with modified midrange characteristics to create a channel that can twang, funk, rock or lay down that nasty Texas blues and propel your tone into another realm altogether. Available on the Hot Rod 100+, 50+ and 50 amplifiers, you now have a choice about how your Soldano will sound.

Re: Hey !
Post by Big Hair on Feb 8th, 2004, 3:10pm

I've got a hot rod 50XL. Got a decent tone out of it as soon as I switched it on - no tweaking required! You know you've got a good amp when that happens.

Wonder what the diffferences are between the hotrod and the avenger??
Re: Hey !
Post by RMS on Feb 8th, 2004, 6:58pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 01:36am, alanfc wrote:
2) I see various SLO's on EBAY too. They're 100 W, too much for me, unless I can get good amp-only sweet
gain at reasonable stage volumes.
I also see on EBAY one thats a 60W SLO, is that right? If so is it really old, and are the innerds designed similar to new 100 Watters?

3) Avenger- new expensive. Probably out of the question. Unless it is so incredibly superior to an HR-50 or SLO-100.


Since several here own the HR50 or HR50XL, I'll let them answer your questions on them. (I've spent a lot of time with one and played it live, but it's been several years.) I assume from your statement about the HR50+, that you only need one channel.

As to the SLO questions: yes, they are 100 W. They have plenty of gain. You can get nearly infinite sustaining high gain at conversation levels. However, they do sound best with some volume, like all tube amps. If you're playing in a loud rock band, you wouldn't have a problem with the volume or tone, I assure you. There's no such thing as a 60 W SLO. All SLO's are identical from the beginning of the company until now. Having said that, various factory modifications are common, but the guts are the same. (FYI, for all of you into single channel Soldanos, there are some single channel SLOs floating around that come up occasionally on ebay.)

I just found the Series II Super Lead 60 W ebay ad. It's part of the short-lived "Made in Japan" series of amps that include these heads and the original SP-77 preamps. It's seriously overpriced at $600. I'd stick with the HR50 if it were me.

I haven't tried an Avenger, so can't answer anything about it vs. other Soldanos. However, a new Avenger doesn't cost as much as the cheapest used SLO you'll find. I'm just double-checking where you are on values, here.

That's enough typing for now! wink

Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:11pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 6:58pm, RMS wrote:
I haven't tried an Avenger, so can't answer anything about it vs. other Soldanos. However, a new Avenger doesn't cost as much as the cheapest used SLO you'll find. I'm just double-checking where you are on values, here.

That's enough typing for now! wink



thank you. For me its comes down to Note Definition. When I heard a tube amp for the first time, I mean in peoples' clips and as a shopper, I immediately heard more note definition. I ' m talking about definition within chords .(even our complex (!) 3pt power chords). All i've ever known is a solid state, where I had to sacrifice defintion to get gain. My chords have angry gain but are sonic mush. Lower gain settings on my amp get me dry clunky yucko but a slightly better definition of notes .

Last night I read Harmony Central reviews side by side, of the Rivera 30/40/55 Watt amps and the Soldano Hot Rod 50s. Most of the Rivera comments regarding gain were that once they got up there in gain, things got a little mushy. On the other hand , the Hot Rod 50 folks were quite the opposite. THis is where my values lie.

Examples, Jerry Cantrell/Rooster. Those growly heavy chords that vibrate and ring so incredibly. Also some Dave Murray/Maiden sounds have that too. do you know I mean when I hear this vibration in the power chords.? I don't know how else to describe it yet.... anyway I am not sure if its single coil pickups, tube amps in general, really good tube amps , or what.

I basically can only describe it as "shiny". Not Trebley necessarily, but sort of a ring to all notes in chords or in solos. Maybe this is the harmonics I always read about regarding tube distortion. The one other thing, is that I thought I liked the EL-34 sounds better than the 6L6 sounds I heard, but then, I heard someones clip on Harm Central about Soldano doing Metal, and I heard clarity that I thought only came from EL-34's. So this is a little confusing. the Hot Rod 50 has 6L6's correct.? My impression of the 6L6 sound, perhaps incorrect, is that its a lower rumbly boxey type of sound. Like Mesa boogie. I 'm totally lost on this power tube question. All I know is that based on reviews and the one clip I heard, that the HR50/Soldano sound is "it" for me.

So RMS, I guess the #1 thing I value is note definition
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:12pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:55am, proudmore wrote:
The Avenger... can't say it sounds bad for two reasons:
1. It's a Soldano. wink
2. TU BE would post some clips and make me look like an idiot. LOL




Yeah I would, LOL!!! wink
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:14pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 3:10pm, Big Hair wrote:
I've got a hot rod 50XL. Got a decent tone out of it as soon as I switched it on - no tweaking required! You know you've got a good amp when that happens.

Wonder what the diffferences are between the hotrod and the avenger??


We ought to both record some clips using the same settings to compare. I think the only control the Avenger has that the HR doesn't is a depth knob.
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:18pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:11pm, alanfc wrote:
I basically can only describe it as "shiny". Not Trebley necessarily, but sort of a ring to all notes in chords or in solos. Maybe this is the harmonics I always read about regarding tube distortion. The one other thing, is that I thought I liked the EL-34 sounds better than the 6L6 sounds I heard, but then, I heard someones clip on Harm Central about Soldano doing Metal, and I heard clarity that I thought only came from EL-34's. So this is a little confusing. the Hot Rod 50 has 6L6's correct.? My impression of the 6L6 sound, perhaps incorrect, is that its a lower rumbly boxey type of sound. Like Mesa boogie. I 'm totally lost on this power tube question. All I know is that based on reviews and the one clip I heard, that the HR50/Soldano sound is "it" for me.

So RMS, I guess the #1 thing I value is note definition



I think as far as clarity goes, Soldanos are some of the best on the market. I actually prefer 6l6 type power tubes. They have more headroom and bottom end than the el34's. Actually, I think most (if not all) Soldanos come stock with 5881 which is basically a 6l6 with a bit more "brightness". I still have the stock Sov 5881's in my Avenger and I love the way they sound.
Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:19pm


mr TU BE

hey, your posts popped up while I was typing my novel.

you have any thoughts on my questions?

thanks
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 8th, 2004, 9:43pm

IMHO for note clarity and definition it's hard to beat a Soldano, period.

Also, with a tube amp, cranking it will NOT cause you to lose any of that. If anything it actually impoves it.


Re: Hey !
Post by RMS on Feb 8th, 2004, 9:55pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 8:11pm, alanfc wrote:
thank you. For me its comes down to Note Definition.

[snip]

All I know is that based on reviews and the one clip I heard, that the HR50/Soldano sound is "it" for me.

So RMS, I guess the #1 thing I value is note definition


Well, you've come to the right place then. I think most of us here would agree that note definition is one of the hallmarks of all Soldano designs. I don't believe that it's an inherent part of tube amps. The Mesa/Boogie distortion sound is big and turns power chords into one massive note: almost the opposite of definition, but a good thing in its own right if that's what you want.

I'm not very experienced with Riveras, but I do know that they have a wide variety of amps that are designed for radically different sounds: where there's definitely a "Soldano sound" that's common through the whole line, I don't believe there's a "Rivera sound" so different models will have significantly different lead sounds. Just to add to the confusion, check out some of the VHT reviews and clips. They're different from Soldanos, but have very good note definition too. (Yeah, I know it's a Soldano site, so I should push the brand! smiley )

My question was meant to narrow down what features you need and what your price point is. You mention the HR50, so I just wanted to make sure that a single channel amp works for you - no clean. Also, you mentioned the HR50 and SLO in the same sentence, but they're the extremes in price for Soldanos. Used, you're looking at ~$600(?) for an HR50 and about 3 times that for a SLO. I don't even know the new prices, but I know they're a fair bit more! grin
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:01pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 9:43pm, TU BE wrote:
IMHO for note clarity and definition it's hard to beat a Soldano, period.

+1! Loud and clear. grin
RMS is right. Tell us what do you want in an amp, feature-wise. Do you need clean tones? You mentioned using delay, so I suppose you want an effects loop.
The HR50 go for around $700-800 on Ebay. I think the HR50+ goes from $1000 and up. An used SLO will cost you between $1800-2200. What's your price range?

I'm seriosly thinking about buying a mic and recording some stuff. I'm a cheap bastard, though. I'll probably wait until I find an used 57. Thing is, I don't see used mics for sale so often... damn, I may just grab a Behringer XM2000 instead. I've heard great things about it. undecided
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:04pm

Also, what kind of tones are you looking for? Can you give a few examples of songs with tone similar to what you're looking for?
Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:12pm



thanks guys

I am pumped about the Note Definition comments ,

(great Avenger clips by the way ! Great playing)


I do not care about clean sounds

One Soldano channel is all I need. And my price range is for a used HR-50 up to a new HR-50 or maybe an Avenger. New or used SLO's are really out for me, unless I stumble upon some insane deal.

I do want make sure if I buy an HR-50 on EBAY that I'm getting the right model years with that XL mod already stock.

yes I mentioned a Delay and some kind of boost pedal for occasional solos, although in a 3- piece it won't be too hard to make out any solo parts I may bless the audience with.(?!)

I could check this, but does the HR-50 have an effects loop?

thanks



Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:22pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:04pm, proudmore wrote:
Also, what kind of tones are you looking for? Can you give a few examples of songs with tone similar to what you're looking for?



hey- there must be some sort of delay with our connections here, keep missing stuff

anyway, I can't put my finger on any good examples-

I'm hearing in my head, and trying to reproduce a combination of : Angus Young, Randy Rhoads (Diary of a Madman sounds), older Meshuggah, and Dimebag. It sounds impossible but its playing in my head right now....

anyways, I can put the link to the two tunes I have up now and it may give you an idea. Warning: I'm not a singer by choice but by necessity. The guitars are with an SM-57 thru a VTB-1 and human doubles-triples-quadruples panned in a variety of ways with a few special FX in certain spots. Otherwise dry. With a solid state Marshall. I'm almost getting what I want recording-wise, but if you can imagine a Soldano sound in place of my current sound you can see why I want more note definition. And especially live, I will not stand a chance with what I have. Its just not an option, even in mic'ed venues.

here's my page if you dare;

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2962&alid=-1

I'll be using these and another 4-5 tunes to attract bassists and drummers to form a recreational weekend band with me. These songs may be changed and traded out for others in the coming months. The 1st one "Rolling " is a little too classic rock to me now, and the 2nd one "Battle" is a litte corny and about 5 bpm too fast. But its a start. These were older songs that I re-recorded on computer as a bit of practice. My new fresh ones I' m working on now are a bit heavier and a little more twisted.
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:25pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:12pm, alanfc wrote:
thanks guys

I am pumped about the Note Definition comments ,

(great Avenger clips by the way ! Great playing)


I do not care about clean sounds

One Soldano channel is all I need. And my price range is for a used HR-50 up to a new HR-50 or maybe an Avenger. New or used SLO's are really out for me, unless I stumble upon some insane deal.

I do want make sure if I buy an HR-50 on EBAY that I'm getting the right model years with that XL mod already stock.

yes I mentioned a Delay and some kind of boost pedal for occasional solos, although in a 3- piece it won't be too hard to make out any solo parts I may bless the audience with.(?!)

I could check this, but does the HR-50 have an effects loop?

thanks




Yes, the HR does have a loop. I think that if you only need one channle and you play rock or metal then either the HR or Avenger would be an excellent choice. Of course, the HR's are ALOT easier to find used than the Avengers.
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:26pm

Yes, the HR50 does have an effects loop. It also have a slave out.

I love the low gain input on the Hot Rod. The low gain crunchy tones are simply great! I also works great with pedals and boost. I wish I had the HR50+, because the low gain input on this thing really rocks, imo. I think you should look for the HR50+, even if you don't care much for clean. It will give you more options for dirty tones too. Do you plan buying from Ebay? I'd wait until a HR50+ pops up on the $1000 price range. That's right in between the price of an used and new HR50.
BTW, I think the HR50 goes for $1200 new and the HR50+ for $1800.
Re: Hey !
Post by RMS on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:35pm

I'd really like to hear the HR50 vs. the Avenger. You really need to snag an SM57. They've got to be out there used. I have 3-4 of them that I bought used. You might also watch the GC ads. They drop the price to $79 for a new one fairly regularly. That's dirt cheap for a good microphone...and peanuts compared to the amps we're talking about.

I thought the HR50 was a bit more Marshallesque than the HR50+, which is based more on the SLO lead. The horrible thing is I've played both, but never at the same time, in different rooms, through different cabs, etc. (I just mentioned something similar on a thread on the HC amp forum.)
Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:36pm


proudmore-

I'm late again

see my comments and my link above


thanks for the notes on the HR's everyone
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 8th, 2004, 11:53pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:35pm, RMS wrote:
I'd really like to hear the HR50 vs. the Avenger. You really need to snag an SM57. They've got to be out there used. I have 3-4 of them that I bought used. You might also watch the GC ads. They drop the price to $79 for a new one fairly regularly. That's dirt cheap for a good microphone...and peanuts compared to the amps we're talking about.

I thought the HR50 was a bit more Marshallesque than the HR50+, which is based more on the SLO lead. The horrible thing is I've played both, but never at the same time, in different rooms, through different cabs, etc. (I just mentioned something similar on a thread on the HC amp forum.)

I don't live in US, so no GC to me. A used 57 cost around $85 here. undecided
Why don't you sell me one of yours and grab that new Sennheiser E609? grin
I've heard good thing about the Audio Technica ATM29HE. They're selling for $60 on MusiciansFriend. I never seen those for sale here, though.
There's an Ebay type of site where a SM57 may pop up from time to time. There's one used store that gets them from time to time... they don't have any at the time.

As far as I know, there's no difference between the HR50 and HR50+. Same amp, they just made both inputs footswitchable and added two knobs (gain and volume for each 'channel').
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 9th, 2004, 12:01am

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:26pm, proudmore wrote:
Yes, the HR50 does have an effects loop. It also have a slave out.

I love the low gain input on the Hot Rod. The low gain crunchy tones are simply great! I also works great with pedals and boost. I wish I had the HR50+, because the low gain input on this thing really rocks, imo. I think you should look for the HR50+, even if you don't care much for clean. It will give you more options for dirty tones too. Do you plan buying from Ebay? I'd wait until a HR50+ pops up on the $1000 price range. That's right in between the price of an used and new HR50.
BTW, I think the HR50 goes for $1200 new and the HR50+ for $1800.


I totally agree on the low input statement. I have been using the low input on the Avenger the last two or three times I've played. Earlier today I was using my Marshall BB2 in boost mode for a clean boost through it and I was in crunchy tone heaven.
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 9th, 2004, 12:03am

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:35pm, RMS wrote:
I'd really like to hear the HR50 vs. the Avenger. You really need to snag an SM57. They've got to be out there used. I have 3-4 of them that I bought used. You might also watch the GC ads. They drop the price to $79 for a new one fairly regularly. That's dirt cheap for a good microphone...and peanuts compared to the amps we're talking about.

I thought the HR50 was a bit more Marshallesque than the HR50+, which is based more on the SLO lead. The horrible thing is I've played both, but never at the same time, in different rooms, through different cabs, etc. (I just mentioned something similar on a thread on the HC amp forum.)


I would as well. I told Big Hair that we should agree on some settings and each make a clip. I don't have a 57 mic though. I use a Shure PG48. But we should be able to do an "in general" comparison nevertheless.
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 9th, 2004, 12:06am

At least both of you can record with GreenBacks. I'd like to hear that.
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 9th, 2004, 01:01am

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:22pm, alanfc wrote:
anyway, I can't put my finger on any good examples-

I'm hearing in my head, and trying to reproduce a combination of : Angus Young, Randy Rhoads (Diary of a Madman sounds), older Meshuggah, and Dimebag. It sounds impossible but its playing in my head right now....

I'm not familiar with later two, but I think the HR50 will cover the AC/DC and Randy Rhoads stuff.

Quote:
anyways, I can put the link to the two tunes I have up now and it may give you an idea.
The 1st one "Rolling " is a little too classic rock to me now, and the 2nd one "Battle" is a litte corny and about 5 bpm too fast. But its a start. These were older songs that I re-recorded on computer as a bit of practice. My new fresh ones I' m working on now are a bit heavier and a little more twisted.

I'll be able to listen the songs a little better later today. It's 5:00 am here (yeah, I should be sleeping... rolleyes)!

Okay... I'm off to bed.
Re: Hey !
Post by RMS on Feb 9th, 2004, 02:35am

My mistake on not thinking about you being outside the US. It's a pretty common assumption by people here, but I generally pride myself on not doing that...

Sorry, I'm not letting any SM-57s go. They're the ultimate gig tool: use them as a hammer before the gig, mic the amp during the gig, throw them at obnoxious people during the gig, and recover them afterwords to use again. They really are worth it. I'll have to record some SLO when I get the rest of my recording gear back to my house.
Re: Hey !
Post by Big Hair on Feb 9th, 2004, 04:42am

maybe we should do a clip the TU BE? What recording software do you use??
Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 9th, 2004, 11:05am

on Feb 9th, 2004, 01:01am, proudmore wrote:
I'm not familiar with later two, but I think the HR50 will cover the AC/DC and Randy Rhoads stuff.




hey sorry, Meshuggah is a Swedish metal band with really heavy complicated stuff and Dimebag is Dimebag Darrell from Pantera
Re: Hey !
Post by Leonardo on Feb 9th, 2004, 12:14pm

I checked your songs again and the tone is not bad... for a SS Marshall. wink
I think the Soldano would be a huge improvement, though. Not only for clarity, it will probably have more useable gain and falls better on the mix, IMO.
Try to find a Soldano dealer and try the HR50, I think you will be pleased.
Re: Hey !
Post by TU BE on Feb 9th, 2004, 2:20pm

on Feb 9th, 2004, 04:42am, Big Hair wrote:
maybe we should do a clip the TU BE? What recording software do you use??


Hey, I use Ntrack software, Audiophile 2496 soundcard and a Shure PG48 mic.

What are some good settings that you think we should use?
Re: Hey !
Post by aleclee on Feb 10th, 2004, 12:42pm

on Feb 8th, 2004, 10:12pm, alanfc wrote:
I could check this, but does the HR-50 have an effects loop?
It does but it's not pedal friendly. It hated my Line 6 delay and modulation modelers (major tone suckage). It works great with my Yamaha MagicStomp, though.
Re: Hey !
Post by alanfc on Feb 10th, 2004, 1:10pm



hmm

when the time comes I'll make the search for the ultimate pedal with the least suckage. All I'll need is a Delay and a boost

thanks