Board Logo
« modern metal guitar tones »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Jan 22nd, 2018, 9:40pm



« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 2 3  Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: modern metal guitar tones  (Read 6934 times)
LIMETORD
Lucky 13
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 82
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #17 on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 01:37am »

Musically,there is tons of interesting stuff going on. Tone wise is a different story. Live metal tones have gotten worse over the years and the hideously trendy Frengel Buggerschall tones are not helping things out in that department. No one playing metal uses "real" amps in the studio anymore. Let me rephrase that a bit they may track with a real amp,but the signal is split with a direct signal and plug-ins are used for the final recorded tone. The same thing is done with drums. The final sound is a massive,crushing wall of (artificially produced) sound. Modern metal productions are akin to modern movie productions...lots of fanciful production techniques are used to overload the consumers' senses and give the illusion of a superior product. Alot of icing and no cake. Hollywood and (metal) music engineers have in effect perfected the art of turd polishing.
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2010, 01:59am by LIMETORD » User IP Logged

tekbow
Super Lead Overdrive
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

In the beginning there was nothing, then it exploded


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 316
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #18 on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 06:45am »

and the mythbusters grin

im hearing this a lot actually, i don't do much, if any recording, and the notion is utterly horrifying..
User IP Logged

hellboy
Guest
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #19 on: Mar 25th, 2010, 8:24pm »

LIMETORD.

You said it all in a nutshell. Or in an Ubershell.


MUD.
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2010, 8:27pm by hellboy » User IP Logged

shredheadpete
Avenger
ImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 45
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #20 on: Apr 1st, 2010, 4:20pm »

on Mar 22nd, 2010, 01:37am, LIMETORD wrote:
Musically,there is tons of interesting stuff going on. Tone wise is a different story. Live metal tones have gotten worse over the years and the hideously trendy Frengel Buggerschall tones are not helping things out in that department. No one playing metal uses "real" amps in the studio anymore. Let me rephrase that a bit they may track with a real amp,but the signal is split with a direct signal and plug-ins are used for the final recorded tone. The same thing is done with drums. The final sound is a massive,crushing wall of (artificially produced) sound. Modern metal productions are akin to modern movie productions...lots of fanciful production techniques are used to overload the consumers' senses and give the illusion of a superior product. Alot of icing and no cake. Hollywood and (metal) music engineers have in effect perfected the art of turd polishing.




Yep, add to that they auto tune, loop, gate and trim; they pretty much protools the shit out of everything.

User IP Logged

hellboy
Guest
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #21 on: Apr 1st, 2010, 5:54pm »

I wonder if some of this is due to the trend of music downloading. Seems everyone is listening to down loaded music through tiny ear buds or computer speakers. Is the modern music bieng tuned to tiny speakers?

I still like to actually buy entire CD. Sit down and listen to it start to finish. I actually perfer records. I think they sound more musical. I can hear a digital difference between a record and a CD of the same. I can hear an even bigger difference between a CD and an IPod.

But recently it seems most bands fill CD's with as many "singles" as they can. I miss the songs recorded for the diehard fans. Songs that are specific, true to thier roots.

Remember when you could listen to a CD and say, there it is, thats the single, or radio play list song. It is the stuff in between the singles that made great bands great.

Where is the B side stuff?
User IP Logged

05Softail
Avenger
ImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 65
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #22 on: Apr 29th, 2010, 12:06pm »

I am waiting for the creative reaction to death metal.

I have a feeling more kids are playing Guitar Hero instead of a real guitar. It is robbing our generation of upcoming players. It was fun to come home from jr. high and plug in my guitar and work on some KISS Alive I or Aerosmith, Steeley Dan... I don't think Guitar Hero is developing future musicians. Sure music is fun for me to play, but also it gives something to someone else. Not sure that is coming across in a video game. Music is not really at it's best when it is approached as a game, to push this button for sound A, or that one for sound B.
User IP Logged

SLO-100, Rivera Knucklehead Tre, MKV,Rectifier
MM JP6, SG, Ibz Sabre, USA Strat, ESP Skully
Harley Davidson
AngryGoldfish
Decatone
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Dan


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 182
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #23 on: Apr 29th, 2010, 1:42pm »

on Apr 29th, 2010, 12:06pm, 05Softail wrote:
I am waiting for the creative reaction to death metal.

I have a feeling more kids are playing Guitar Hero instead of a real guitar. It is robbing our generation of upcoming players. It was fun to come home from jr. high and plug in my guitar and work on some KISS Alive I or Aerosmith, Steeley Dan... I don't think Guitar Hero is developing future musicians. Sure music is fun for me to play, but also it gives something to someone else. Not sure that is coming across in a video game. Music is not really at it's best when it is approached as a game, to push this button for sound A, or that one for sound B.


I think it both encourges people to play, and discourages.

Today, there are far easier ways to get in contact with good music - YouTube, Guitar Hero, Radio, LastFm, Myspace, MTV, etc. - And although it both distracts youths from playing instruments, it also opens up so many different avenues of music to these people. You can't ignore rock music any more.

And, in my opinion, if a young lad/lassie really wants to play guitar, little can stop him from doing that.
User IP Logged

SOFmed
Hot Rod
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 4
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #24 on: Jun 18th, 2010, 1:41pm »

A lot of the so-called metal that I've heard in the last few years, is downright whiney. It sounds like the Emo influence is satrting to work it's way into metal and it really chaps my ass. This faggy, "mom and dad didn't hold me enough, my life is hard and my girl dumped me" crap has no place in metal.

A lot of the stuff I've heard just sounds like they need to turn the amp up and the preamp gain down. It's fuzzy and overly saturated with flat cardboard like dynamics. There's so much good gear available today. I think a lot of people are just overly dependant on preamp gain. This crap is like the antithesis of Fair Warning, Out of the Cellar, Appetite for Destruction orUnder Lock and Key. Marshall, Soldano or whatever...ou've still got to crank it to get to the good stuff. SLO's just get magical past 5. smiley
« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2010, 1:45pm by SOFmed » User IP Logged

AngryGoldfish
Decatone
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Dan


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 182
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #25 on: Jun 18th, 2010, 8:11pm »

on Mar 22nd, 2010, 01:37am, LIMETORD wrote:
Musically,there is tons of interesting stuff going on. Tone wise is a different story. Live metal tones have gotten worse over the years and the hideously trendy Frengel Buggerschall tones are not helping things out in that department. No one playing metal uses "real" amps in the studio anymore. Let me rephrase that a bit they may track with a real amp,but the signal is split with a direct signal and plug-ins are used for the final recorded tone. The same thing is done with drums. The final sound is a massive,crushing wall of (artificially produced) sound. Modern metal productions are akin to modern movie productions...lots of fanciful production techniques are used to overload the consumers' senses and give the illusion of a superior product. Alot of icing and no cake. Hollywood and (metal) music engineers have in effect perfected the art of turd polishing.


That's generalizing a lot. Not all modern metal is processed and digital sounding.

Anyway, there are many, many great people who love that style of producing and engineering. Who are you to say that these musicians have substantially and accidentally degraded metal somehow and detracted from it's original and most important statement? You're judging an enormous population of people without giving any evidence to the matter, other than what seems to be speculation. Okay yeah, you may not like the tone of modern metal, but there are far more people that don't like the stripped-down and raw metal records of the 60-90's. Who's right? In my opinion, it's totally up to the individual and their ears. But you didn't say it like it was an opinion; you said it like it was fact - new metal = shit / old metal = heaven ... which isn't very fair.

And besides, most people fail to realise that whatever they grow up with, that is what matters to them the most. If you grew up in the 90's listening to metal and other forms of music, that is what is most likely gonna matter to you the most. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule and it's a generalized statement, but I believe it to be true.

I don't cherish Sabbath like I cherish High on Fire, when they clearly have stark similarities. It's because Sabbath was from a different era. HOF were born when I was born. That means something to me – it's not just sound and quality of music. Metal, to me, is about community and living in the moment.

on Jun 18th, 2010, 1:41pm, SOFmed wrote:
A lot of the so-called metal that I've heard in the last few years, is downright whiney. It sounds like the Emo influence is satrting to work it's way into metal and it really chaps my ass. This faggy, "mom and dad didn't hold me enough, my life is hard and my girl dumped me" crap has no place in metal.

A lot of the stuff I've heard just sounds like they need to turn the amp up and the preamp gain down. It's fuzzy and overly saturated with flat cardboard like dynamics. There's so much good gear available today. I think a lot of people are just overly dependant on preamp gain. This crap is like the antithesis of Fair Warning, Out of the Cellar, Appetite for Destruction orUnder Lock and Key. Marshall, Soldano or whatever...ou've still got to crank it to get to the good stuff. SLO's just get magical past 5. smiley


Another over-generalized remark. Smashing Pumpkins were one of the first emo bands, but they don't get the amount of slagging recent "emo" bands receive. It's cool for Pumpkins, Nirvana and The Cure to be morose and whinny, but not Devil Sold his Soul or Funeral for a Friend...

And I have this niggling feeling that you've never really played an amp with a GOOD preamp section, like a Baron, Titan, Diezel, Elmwood, Soldano (yep, kick-ass preamp section essential in the SLO tone), Fryette. And even if you have and still feel that way, that's absolutely fine. Just don't start berating everything in a condescending statement because you've seen one-too-many kids playing fizzy Triple Rectifiers and 6505's in their bedrooms.

I'm not angry or having a go, btw. I'm simply stating that I happen to love preamp gain when it's used properly; in conjunction with power-amp gain / tone. The “best” amps are those that aren't afraid to use a bit of both – such as Soldano, Orange, Egnater, Bogner and Marshall (to a certain degree).

At least to me. Again, I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I just feel like having a chat. smiley
User IP Logged

MrYou
Super Lead Overdrive
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 341
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #26 on: Jun 19th, 2010, 12:00am »

I don't listen to "Emo" so I don't truly know what it is, but umm... Smashing Pumpkins, The Cure, Nirvana??!! Emo??!! You seem to only be referring to their lyrics right?? Sorry sir, but you're definitely wrong on that one. Your comments have me confused.

I agree with SOFmed comments in regards to "Nu Metals" over reliance on extreme high gain preamp fuzziness with virtually zero dynamics. Its just bland boring rhythm tone, IMO. Thats what they want though. I guess this is where Producers and Sound Engineers earn their pay, making that mush mix well.
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2010, 12:01am by MrYou » User IP Logged

PRS: DGT << SC 250 Available >> << SC 245 Available >>
Soldano: SLO-100
Mesa: << Black/Gold 3/4-Back 1x12 Mesa "Black Shadow" Celestion C90 Cabinets Available >>
SOFmed
Hot Rod
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 4
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #27 on: Jun 19th, 2010, 03:12am »

Geez AGF...goooozfraba.....it's just my oppinion; calm down. I was reffering to some of the more overly produced nu metal or whatever you call it albums I've heard where the tone is just super saturated. I'm not reffering to any one particular band, guitar player or amp, and I have a "nigling" feeling that I own a Rockstah Mod5 Mojave, a Plexi set up by Dave Friedman of Racksystems, have played a few SLOs, own a Voodoo Deluxe modded 6505+, played a Bogner Shiva and Uberschall, Deizel Herbert, Elmwood Modena, a few Egnators...c'mon brothah you aint the only one to get your hands on the good stuff. wink

What I'm saying is that with even good high gain amps, they sound better cranked, and you can still over do the distortion on just about any of them. I don't think I'm being condescending or berating by voicing my oppinion about how their shit tone sounds to me.

And I dig the Pumpkins and Nirvana; they had good tunes and to me their music at least seemed honest. As for whiney "Emo'ish bands, I was more reffering to stuff like "Bullet for my Valentine". Sorry if there any Emo fans out there, or if any of you really dig that crappy band. laugh

I think one good example of a "non-whiney" modern metal band with good guitar tone is Opeth on blackwater Park. There's a lot of good stuff out there; good playing and good tone. Just erks me that the stuff that seems to get more of the radio play sounds like a bunch of no talent pussies with lame riffs hiding behind way too much distortion. Just my .02; doesn't mean I'm right. grin
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2010, 03:24am by SOFmed » User IP Logged

AngryGoldfish
Decatone
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Dan


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 182
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #28 on: Jun 19th, 2010, 1:13pm »

on Jun 19th, 2010, 03:12am, SOFmed wrote:
Geez AGF...goooozfraba.....it's just my oppinion; calm down. I was reffering to some of the more overly produced nu metal or whatever you call it albums I've heard where the tone is just super saturated. I'm not reffering to any one particular band, guitar player or amp, and I have a "nigling" feeling that I own a Rockstah Mod5 Mojave, a Plexi set up by Dave Friedman of Racksystems, have played a few SLOs, own a Voodoo Deluxe modded 6505+, played a Bogner Shiva and Uberschall, Deizel Herbert, Elmwood Modena, a few Egnators...c'mon brothah you aint the only one to get your hands on the good stuff. wink

What I'm saying is that with even good high gain amps, they sound better cranked, and you can still over do the distortion on just about any of them. I don't think I'm being condescending or berating by voicing my oppinion about how their shit tone sounds to me.

And I dig the Pumpkins and Nirvana; they had good tunes and to me their music at least seemed honest. As for whiney "Emo'ish bands, I was more reffering to stuff like "Bullet for my Valentine". Sorry if there any Emo fans out there, or if any of you really dig that crappy band. laugh

I think one good example of a "non-whiney" modern metal band with good guitar tone is Opeth on blackwater Park. There's a lot of good stuff out there; good playing and good tone. Just erks me that the stuff that seems to get more of the radio play sounds like a bunch of no talent pussies with lame riffs hiding behind way too much distortion. Just my .02; doesn't mean I'm right. grin


Why are you telling me to calm down? I told you I'm not angry in any way. I'm just having a conversion with someone on the interwebz.

And it was just making a point when I said you haven't experienced good amps. You wouldn't be on the Soldano forums if you hadn't. wink I didn't mean it to offend anyone or to assume myself as a more knowledgeable person regarding amplifiers than anyone else. In fact, it's probably the other way around. tongue

Yeah, most amps do sound better cranked. But that's often because of the Fletcher Munson effect, not because of the power-amp gain. There are definitely many amps that demand loud volumes to hit saturated, compressed levels of bliss, but there are many amps that DON'T require that. And those are often lumped into the same category as those overly-compressed, fizzy, mushy, mid-scooped amp tones you're speaking of.

I appreciate Bullet for my Valentine as they're a fun band to listen to. I never take them seriously when they're so unrelatable and unbelievable. But that doesn't mean they're whinny or crap. Look at Iron Maiden or Megadeth – they don't exactly sing about interesting or important topics. They're just fun rock bands - who happen to have whinny and annoying voices.

Opeth are awesome. And yeah, it bothers me too that Bullet will be regarded higher over Opeth. But that's life. Look at Taylor Swift – I find her music very pretentious and frustrating. But it's catchy and “sweet”. So people will favour her over someone else of higher talent, like Laura Marling or the older greats like Kate Bush and Björk.

on Jun 19th, 2010, 12:00am, MrYou wrote:
I don't listen to "Emo" so I don't truly know what it is, but umm... Smashing Pumpkins, The Cure, Nirvana??!! Emo??!! You seem to only be referring to their lyrics right?? Sorry sir, but you're definitely wrong on that one. Your comments have me confused.

I agree with SOFmed comments in regards to "Nu Metals" over reliance on extreme high gain preamp fuzziness with virtually zero dynamics. Its just bland boring rhythm tone, IMO. Thats what they want though. I guess this is where Producers and Sound Engineers earn their pay, making that mush mix well.


Emo IS the lyrics. It's not emo without emotional lyrics. And if you're talking about emo as a fashion statement then Pumpkins and The Cure fit that bill, too.

Why are you confused? I'm simply saying that it's narrow-minded to accuse today's “emo music” whilst having the utmost respect for latter day “emo music”. It's all just music at the end of the day. There's no right or wrong way of doing it.

I play heavy metal but I use very little gain. I find too much gain - whether from the preamp valves or poweramp valves - just covers over everything with noise (obviously that can be useful for certain genres), and doesn't allow the guitarist to “shine through” dynamically.
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2010, 1:15pm by AngryGoldfish » User IP Logged

LIMETORD
Lucky 13
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 82
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #29 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 03:31am »

High on Fire is not what I would consider a "modern metal" band exactly...those guys are influenced by Black Sabbath and 1970s hard-rock bands and they sound like it. Modern is more of a stylistic + sound descriptor. In regard to metal, Killswitch Engage,Trivium,Slipknot,Lamb of God (I.e.- cookie-monster MTV kiddie metal crap with detuned and/or 7-string guitars) would be "modern" sounding. Opeth would fall into that category as well sonically but not so much stylistically. My previous post was not a generalization (and not really a criticism either...just a fact of modern metal productions.) The variables of unique sounding amps + drum sets are seldom present on modern metal productions. The reason is simple- the fans want that huge sound generated by plug-ins and samples and the labels,managers and artists feel that they must provide a product that can compete in the market. This doesn't prevent bands that are not "modern" sounding from employing those production methods...I'd bet my SLO that plug-ins and drum samples were used on all recent High on Fire albums. And Opeth?! Forget it...all guitar plug-ins and drum samples. Once again, not a criticism at all...just a fact of modern metal productions.
« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2010, 04:01am by LIMETORD » User IP Logged

AngryGoldfish
Decatone
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Dan


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 182
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #30 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 10:08am »

No, I agree that HOF aren't modern metal. I don't even know if I'd call them "metal" at all. undecided

Opeth, in my opinion, are more in the 80's technical metal range, taking inspiration from bands like Rush, Dream Theatre, Cynic, Death, etc. I never would of sectioned them as a modern band sonically. They have too much of a dark undertone to be modern (which is often quite bright and optimistic).

I don't know about HOF using plug-ins. Have you watched their studio footage on YouTube? Matt is using Mike's first Soldano from lend, and it looks like he's going straight into a mic and into the mixing board / audio interface. I could be wrong obviously, but I just can't imagine HOF using plug-ins when they're sound is so raw. I'm sure they will use a few of them to a certain degree, but not for the core sound. Maybe as little fill sections, but little else - from a guess.

You say it's not a criticism, but you still call Slipknot crap. I definitely see what you're saying - and to a large extent I agree with it - but there is a strong chance that the people who have grown up with Slipknot and the energy they produce will be saying the same thing you and others are saying now in 20 years time when production methods have changed AGAIN, because it's just evolution.
User IP Logged

LIMETORD
Lucky 13
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 82
xx Re: modern metal guitar tones
« Reply #31 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 2:45pm »

Technology in the film industry paralells the music industry. If you take a "heavy-metal" album from 20 years ago and compare it to today,they sound very different. Why is that? It's due to the technologies involved with the production such as plug-ins and drum samples,auto-tune + harmony processors. Electric guitars,tube amps and drumsets have hardly changed at all over the past 25 years! If Nevermore,Megadeth,Opeth,etc. went back 25 years they couldn't make an album that sounds like one of their recent productions. The material would obviously still be of high artistic quality (this is subjective of course.) In 1985, analog recording was the method of recording and digital editing capabilities,plug-ins and drum replacement were distant technologies. So- modern metal guitar and drum sounds are the result of technological advances....not "superior guitars,amps,drums,cymbals,etc." This results in many bands using the same software for guitar and drum sounds which results in a massive but generic sound. The same goes for the visuals in the movie and video game industry. This doesn't mean that quality albums and movies are not being made with state-of-the-art technologies. In addition- it doesn't prevent quality music and movies from being produced using older production forms. In terms of metal- it's all an illusion...the same way that the flying primates in Avatar are an illusion. Monstrous sounding power chords and flying space monkeys are pretty cool though! smiley
User IP Logged

Pages: 1 2 3  Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls